2012 SPM students - interested in medicine

[buttercup]

The reason for starting a new thread is because here i will be talking about students who will be sitting for their SPM in 2012. ( As we all know every now and then things change and infos on certain issues posted few years ago won't be the same again such as (it seems only for the students who sat for SPM in 2011 - who will be taking matrics in 2012/2013 - non-bumi allocation is 1500).

1. My son is sitting for his SPM in 2012. He wants to do medicine. We have applied for matrics - choices Sleangor, Penang & Kedah ( after doing some research)

2. We will only know the result for matrics in May/June 2013. If we wait and don't get we will be wasting 5-6 months. If immediately after his SPM, using his trial result he applies to do foundation in Jan 2013, he can finish by end of 2013. The he may be able to start his medice in Jan at some of the u here. Is it possible and adviceable?

3. Can non-bumis apply for asasi? which u does provide asasi for non-bumi. Correct me if i am wrong, UPM and UPNM only right? UPM only offers asasi pertanian while UPNM is for tentera. That means does he has to serve the tentera even he if enrolls as pelajar awam? How do we apply to UPNM ?

4. If he wants to do foundation, which is the best and recognised university in Malaysia? Is this u recognised n oversea?( If he wants to work in overseas incase we don't get public u?)

5.Is asasi sains hayat and asasi fizikal the same? I understand that they have to take different subjects. Can both students do medicine?

I would like to thank everyone in advance for your time.

Regards,
Buttercup

[gjy677]

I am more concerned if your son is really determined to read medicine. Is he? (Adequate exposure to the career is needed)

[frostbyte13]

Originally Posted by buttercup

The reason for starting a new thread is because here i will be talking about students who will be sitting for their SPM in 2012. ( As we all know every now and then things change and infos on certain issues posted few years ago won't be the same again such as (it seems only for the students who sat for SPM in 2011 - who will be taking matrics in 2012/2013 - non-bumi allocation is 1500).

1. My son is sitting for his SPM in 2012. He wants to do medicine. We have applied for matrics - choices Sleangor, Penang & Kedah ( after doing some research)

2. We will only know the result for matrics in May/June 2013. If we wait and don't get we will be wasting 5-6 months. If immediately after his SPM, using his trial result he applies to do foundation in Jan 2013, he can finish by end of 2013. The he may be able to start his medice in Jan at some of the u here. Is it possible and adviceable?

3. Can non-bumis apply for asasi? which u does provide asasi for non-bumi. Correct me if i am wrong, UPM and UPNM only right? UPM only offers asasi pertanian while UPNM is for tentera. That means does he has to serve the tentera even he if enrolls as pelajar awam? How do we apply to UPNM ?

4. If he wants to do foundation, which is the best and recognised university in Malaysia? Is this u recognised n oversea?( If he wants to work in overseas incase we don't get public u?)

5.Is asasi sains hayat and asasi fizikal the same? I understand that they have to take different subjects. Can both students do medicine?

I would like to thank everyone in advance for your time.

Regards,
Buttercup

Greetings to a concerned mother. Welcome to ReCom.

First off, I would like to ask where did you get hold of such information that I highlighted in bold? Just curious..

Yes, it is possible for your son to enter into another pre-university/foundation program to start off things for the sake of continuing the studying momentum. Also, because a lot of students do apply for Matrikulasi, but the chances are high that they will not get a place for the institution they shortlisted as their choices. This happened to some of my friends, including a bumiputera and they rejected the offer in the end. So, at least the half year's worth of studying isn't wasted and it may provide a heads-up advantage compared to his peers. A few of my friends have done this and came out better prepared in their first semester upon transferring to either Matrikulasi or some other program under JPA sponsorship. The other advisable thing I'd ask your son to do as an alternative to studying is to perform some hospital attachments come 2013 ASAP. It will show him some of the ropes behind the medical field, most often not as what others may perceive. As you may or may not know, medicine is not simply something one pursues just because one has good grades. I also apologize in advance if this may offend you - I've already heard many parents forcing it onto their children to study medicine due to coaxing from society and their perception that it leads to a prestigious future. The shallow truth I know so far about medicine is that it is far away from the kinds of blown-out-of-proportion medical series we follow on television. The life of a doctor (at least for the first decade of their career and probably the rest of it) is a life dedicated to perpetual studying, testing of knowledge, passion for people, working awkward and long hours and low starting pay (at least this is what I gathered from ReCom and a few friends studying medicine in the past) So, with all due respect, I hope your son understands what he is getting himself into and a hospital attachment will very much show him whether he is ready to pursue this field. The experience is invaluable.

Not very sure about asasi but I'm sure someone will get back to you on that. As far as I know of, I have heard from some friends that application into UM's and some other public universities' foundation programs was possible back 2 years ago, including non-bumis.

You will find out later if you follow your son's education development that frankly, there is no absolute best university in Malaysia, be it private or public. All of them have their own strengths and advantages, but of course, there is still distinction from top-tiers to lower-tiers universities in Malaysia. If your son wishes to work overseas, it will not be his foundation qualifications that matter, but his first degree that he graduates with. Just for your information.

If I am reading you right, your son is interested in a FOUNDATION program. If you are worried about recognition overseas, I'd recommend the MUFY (Monash University Foundation Year) offered at Monash University, Malaysia or the UNSWFY (University of New South Wales Foundation Year) offered at KDU University College. Both are foundation programs offered by their respective universities and brought over to Malaysia like a franchise. Lectures are most of the time local, but syllabus material and examinations are based on the universities back home (in both cases, Australia)

If recognition is so important to you, why not go for a PRE-UNIVERSITY program? A-level (Cambridge or London Board), IB (International Baccalaureate), SAM (South Australian Matriculation), AUSMAT (Australian Matriculation), CPU (Canadian Pre-University) are about some of the popular pre-university programs offered in Malaysia. Just like the MUFY/UNSWFY, the lecturers are conducted locally but the material is brought over from their respective countries. Most of these pre-universities offer a qualification upon graduation that opens doors to almost every where in the world. A-level and IB are the internationally renowned (but A-level graduates mostly aim for UK), whereas AUSMAT, SAM and CPU to their respective countries and a few more (eg HK, NZ, China, Russia, etc) However, entering overseas does not solely depend on your results from pre-university ; a foreword warning. A-level and IB will consume more time than a year compared to the other pre-university programs, but IMO, your son will come out better prepared due to the depth of knowledge and skill tested in both.

If I am reading this right, SAINS HAYAT - PURE SCIENCE and SAINS FIZIKAL - PHYSICAL SCIENCE. I am not an expert in this (but some others in ReCom are) . My guess however is that in terms of similarity, Physics might be the interlinking between these two fields. Pure Science, as I recall it, en composes the 3 primary branches of science (Physics, Chemistry, Biology) and to a certain extent, some of their sub-branches like Biochemical. It is highly unlikely your son will be able to practice medicine if he studies for a Pure Science degree. Pure Science graduates are research oriented. Not to mention, there is no clinical modules for Pure Science and the time taken to graduate is the same as most degrees ; 3 years. Pure Science graduates also graduate with a BSc qualification. Medicine will take 5 years to graduate with an MBBS. The qualifications are not the same nor are they interchangeable.

Originally Posted by gjy677

I am more concerned if your son is really determined to read medicine. Is he? (Adequate exposure to the career is needed)

It's actually surprising you as a parent is doing all this research work for your son. I hope he is also doing his part in research as these basic things should be clear cut to him by now if he is serious about medicine. Most of my friends who are doing medicine have already researched their future pathways since Form 4 at least.

[buttercup]

First of all i would like to thank you for taking your time to answer. It may look funny that why am I doing all these research thingy while my son is busy preparing for his exam. Actually we both are doing this together and it saves a lot of his time. Right now both my children are with me in the study room studying. I post whatever questions that my son wants to know and i will also read all the forums on the matrikulation and so on ( then everynight we have a chat time from 9pm -10pm before going to bed, while brushing teeth and so on we will talk about what i have gathered from the forum and he will tell me what are his concerns , and what to ask or find out next) He doesn't have & doesn't use facebook account or any personal e mail account. If he needs, he will use my e mail account or my husband's and in the family we know everybodies password and we all use it as a group account). Like when my husband is busy i reply his email for him and so on. Sorry i had to explain in a long way....

Next, the thing you highlighted ( I read in one of the forum under matrikulasi, if i come across it agian i will note down and let you know excatly where it was form , but need some time to check, i was like checking all the forum for few weeks now)

Doctors are many in my family, but they did their medical course way long ago. My younger brother is a speacialist in Seremban Hospital, my sis in law and brother in law are also doctors and few of my uncles and many of our close friends are doctors, surgens.......all in the medical field. They won't be the right person to ask about the current rules and regulations and the youngers doctor in our family is already 40 years old. My son talks to them a lot and finds out about the medical feild and he was always talking about being a surgen.

At first I was worried that just because of the number of doctors in family made him like this medical feild.... so I told him many times that he can leave his options open and no pressure on him and that he can change his mind anytime he wants. Whenever there is any education promotions at his school, he will bring back only the medical pamplets home.

So you mean it is a good idea to do a foundation in Jan 2013 and if he gots matric we switch back to matric?

[frostbyte13]

OK no facebook or personal email It will be a little hard to connect with some of his seniors and friends who have already decided on Medicine. Whats more, expanding one's social network is imperative for him, even at the cost of being caught in the social fallout. I learnt all I know about Medicine on the shallow basis through friends via facebook and ReCom. It's his decision if he doesn't choose to be connected then. I can see your son might have a genuine interest in Medicine. However, just to be sure, I think it's safer to let him have the hospital attachment as I recommended as he will have the chance to also meet the less pretty side of medicine ; the fresh graduates on housemanship and those serving their bonds to the government. Those in the early stages of climbing the medical profession ladder who need to deal with abnormally long shifts, on-call at odd hours, meagre salaries, potentially hostile superiors and seniors, socially-deprived, etc. Talking to doctors who have already become specialists/surgeons/own practices might not reveal the true nature of Medicine-related work today but I could be wrong. A friend was once told by a few doctors at a hospital visitation that a doctor's life does get a little more comfortable and rewarding (monetarily) after the first 10 years or so. It would be a surplus too if the relatives he speaks to are from both the private and public hospitals. It would give him a more wholesome view of Malaysia's world of medicine today.

If Medicine is the only thing on his mind when going to education fairs, try pushing him to see other alternatives. For me, I found my calling after my pre-university gave me lots of insight to what a real engineer/lawyer/doctor/etc may do. If the reaction is an obvious and absolute rejection, it should be that he is sure of it already. Another recommended step for him is to follow blogs about medicine in Malaysia. Someone in ReCom in the past posted a link, but I'm sure there are others as well. Just simply Google search.

Yes, you opt for such a choice. It will not be a total loss, just that you may lose some money and incur some inconvenience when transferring. He should bare in mind too, despite taking Matrikulasi, there is still a chance he won't be offered Medicine in university. As you may or may not know, Malaysia is a hotbed for newly established medical schools and many more graduates. Getting a hospital job even with flying colours upon graduation may not be as easy as it will look. Even if he does not receive Matrikulasi and ends up completing his MBBS in a private university, cost won't be the only thing to worry about. The recognition of his degree will also be a problem unless you are willing to perform the daring investment on his passion. You should be warned that private foundation/pre-university candidates are highly unlikely to secure a place in public universities (USM is also no surprise, despite opening applications for private candidates)

My earnest hope is all in all, your son will actually choose the profession because he is compassionate for human life. There will be times he will have to handle emotionally devastating situations professionally and humanely. He will need to immerse himself and get involved from diagnosis to treatment and to recovery/death/life-time treatment ; whichever applies. He should find the rewards of prolonging someone's life or curing their ailments more satisfactory than his pay. If not, he is just going to be another common medical practitioner in it just for the money ; the kinds that give doctors and the medical profession a bad name. In fact, if money is what he is looking for, and a quicker way to it, there are other professions like investment banking and actuarial science. Those are lucrative businesses if you can push yourself to the limit in a short time.

All the best to your son. Hopefully our moderators (some of them already being doctors) will attend to this thread.

[gureilla]

I shall attempt to give some advice based on my experience thus far. Just for your infor, I am not studying medicine and am just giving some advice based on information from my peers. First off, there is basically a few paths to a MBBS. In my opinion, if u are looking forward to be a doctor here in Malaysia, it is best to go to a public university as public universities can save a lot of cost. It is best if your son can secure a place in matrikulasi as the chances of getting medicine course to a public uni from matriks is way higher than other pre u like STPM or A level. I don't know if it's easy or not but most of my non bumi friends in matriks get perfect 4.0 and obtain the choice of their course fairly easily, even sometimes it may be not the uni of their choice but at most times they get the course of their choice. The story is totally different for other pre u programs, even with a STPM 4.0 u may not be given the choice of your course, what more for other pre u programs. But of course there are some exceptions, for example some of my friends got into medicine in USM with their A levels qualification. Since your worry lies with "what if my son din't get into matriks", well private unis have very flexible program intakes and they would have intakes a few times a year. It is up to your son really if he wants to start off a pre u/foundation program in January next year and leave it says if he gets matrikulasi. I personally don't think it's too late to enrol to a pre u/foundation program in May or June should he fail to get into matriks. If u want to study medicine overseas then it's best to take a pre u program that is recognized worldwide, eg: A levels,IB or STPM. If u want to go for medicine in a private local uni then a foundation then leading to the MBBS is most suitable then. Of course, do check with the respective unis if their course is recognized by the Malaysian government. All the best to u and your son. Pardon my spelling or grammar mistakes, I'm typing this on my phone.

[plawks]

1. Whatever choice you put is fine. They don't really consider your choices anyway. My matrics college offer wasn't even in my 3 choices lol.

2. By all means go for it if you can afford it.

3. Can't comment on UPNM, don't know much. I didn't even know asasi UPM is open for non-bumis. Yeah afaik PASUM, asasi UiTM and all those other asasi courses are for bumis only.

4. Do MUFY. The Medicine course offered by Monash University Malaysia Campus is the only Med course in Malaysia that is accredited by the Australian Medical Council. Or just join a pre U course and apply to overseas unis.

5. Actually sains hayat means life sciences and sains fizikal means physical sciences. It depends on the uni that you are applying to. For UM Medicine, Bio is a must whereas for USM Medicine, Bio is optional so students for the Physics stream can apply for it. The safest route is to enrol into the first module of matriculation (Phy, Chem, Bio, Maths). If his interests changes he can still apply to other physics related courses.

Edit
An advice: Don't take STPM if your son is truly interested in Medicine and plans to apply to public unis. Check the admission stats and you'll see how biased the system is.

[kwongkienyi]

3. Can non-bumis apply for asasi? which u does provide asasi for non-bumi. Correct me if i am wrong, UPM and UPNM only right? UPM only offers asasi pertanian while UPNM is for tentera. That means does he has to serve the tentera even he if enrolls as pelajar awam? How do we apply to UPNM ?

Yeah! u are right. for the government asasi, the choice for non-bumi is very limited. the only university which offer medic for non-bumi is just UPNM. Others like UM, UPM etc (just for medic) didn't offer to non-bumi.
if i am not mistaken there are other uni offer asasi for non bumi but not the medic course and not the uni like usm, um, ukm or upm. however, for the entry requirement for asasi, u can check it from theis website:

http://imascu.upu.mohe.gov.my/

if u want to apply for UPNM u can apply through UPU form. u can get it from Bank Simpanan Negara(if i am not mistaken) but of course not now (normally it will open during SPM for the collective and January for the individual) this one ,i didn't really sure because my school counsellor help all the students to buy it last year!
for more information about how to apply for UPNM u can surf this website:
http://www.upnm.edu.my/index.php?req=31
http://www.upnm.edu.my/upfiles/mm27_syarat_masuk_kategori_a_lepasan_spm_2012.pdf
regarging to serve back Malaysia Army, sorry i didn't sure about it

5.Is asasi sains hayat and asasi fizikal the same? I understand that they have to take different subjects. Can both students do medicine?

if i am not mistaken, sains fizikal is for those who want to be engineer (more to physics).regarding to the students from asasi sains fizikal can be the doctor, u can try to check USM because they accept the STPM/matric physics students.
but..... is the sains hayat and sains fizikal open to non bumi?

[plawks]

Originally Posted by kwongkienyi

but..... is the sains hayat and sains fizikal open to non bumi?

Matrics used to have 2 different streams for science students. Hayat or fizikal. Open for non-bumis.

Since the 2011/2012 matrics intake they changed the fizikal/hayat thing so there are 3 modules for science students:
Module 1: Bio, Chem, Phy, Maths
Module 2: Phy, Chem, Maths, CS
Module 3: Bio, Chem, Maths, CS

Asasi sains hayat/fizikal not open for non-bumis though.

[gjy677]

I couldn't agree more on what frostbyte13 had mentioned in his replies. I was going to reply with similar comments but I haven't got the time to do that. I think people above had answered your questions fairly well. I may be able to provide some information on life in medical school and life as a junior doctor. However, I really wish if I can interact with your son in a more interactive medium. Anyway, he still have time after his SPM to see for himself conditions in general hospitals by doing attachments in GHs.