Help: Obtaining Unconditional offers and Financial Afrom Top Foreign Universities

[frankchong]

It is very rare to see students getting into the top US universities with SPM results. I know only one case of a Malaysian student admitted into UC Berkeley with SPM results. If you get perfect/almost perfect SAT scores and a few 5s in APs, you can give it a try. However, if you aim for the very top, even perfect SAT scores, many 5s in APs and good grades in no guarantee, even for US citizens. There are too many applicants with those attributes. So, the first order of business is to do well and demonstrate leadership or some special abilities to make yourself more competitive.
The purpose of need based financial aid is not to give you free money, it is to enable the students to pursue their studies. It would be a combination of financial aid, work and parent contribution. Work can be in the library ... and many students take up those work while in college.
If you do well in STPM/A level, SAT, APs etc, you could have a better chance to get scholarship from the second tier universities, these universities have a lot of full paying students, but would also want to attract high quality students to raise their standard.
Are there exceptions to the rules? Yes, but SPM results is not significant enough meet those rules . I know an international student who got full scholarship to Caltech, but then he was a gold medallist in the International Physics Olympiad.

[ParadiseLost]

There was one Malaysian student who got into MIT with only SPM results (quite some time ago). He was an International Math Olympiad medalist.

However, even with A levels/IB/STPM (or equivalent pre-U qualifications) it extremely difficult to get into these need-blind schools (Harvard, Yale, Princeton, MIT). Their admission rates are brutal: Harvard (5.9%), Yale (6.8%), Princeton (7.9%), MIT (9%). From what I've heard for the past 2 years, nobody got into Harvard. And for this year, nobody got into Yale or Princeton.

As for financial aid, as far as I remember when I applied last year - Harvard and Yale guarantees to sponsor 100% of all your expenses (tuition, lodging, food, etc) as long as your parents income is below US$65,000 a year.

For the UK it is a little difficult, even here in Cambridge, it is very hard to get any form of financial assistance -- I have some friends in Cambridge under partial scholarship though (but it is very rare, and they almost never offer any scholarships to you). UK universities face a lot of budget problems, US universities are far richer.

My younger brother doing A levels applied to HYP, Stanford and MIT this year and unfortunately he was unable to secure a place at any of those universities. He will be heading to Oxford though.

Applying to Ivy League colleges in Form 5 is not a very good idea. Even my friends who did A levels and went on to the Ivy League felt that the coursework was immensely difficult even with their A level background.

[frankchong]

Yes, you are right, a number of years ago, Harvard and few of the other universities offer full tuition and board for children of parents with less than 65K annual income. The biggest problem is getting in, once you are in, the rest can be worked out.
Yes, to get to the top schools, the students need something special, it does not matter which field, but a demonstrated ability is necessary to stand out among the good applicants. This is the reason why, when someone says he/she is interested in Math and physics, I tried to encourage them to go a lot further than what is in the text books, but I have not seen any taker so far from the students here.
We have family members who went to those institutions and we have met a lot of their friends and parents of students who got in asking us about our children's experience in those institutions. We have a fairly good feel of who gets in.
Typical students in Malaysia do not go beyound what is covered in the text books, but when you see those well prepared students, they are far beyond what is normally expected from the "average" good students. If you do not have those special talent and you are from special circumstances, you may get in, but hard to count on it.
You and your brother will do fine in Cambridge and Oxford, there is just not enough openings in the top US universities to admit all the deserving students. You may want to try for graduate school, a number of my kids classmates did it and got in.

best regards,
Frank

"Applying to Ivy League colleges in Form 5 is not a very good idea. Even my friends who did A levels and went on to the Ivy League felt that the coursework was immensely difficult even with their A level background."

This is true, what is taught in universities are very different from what is taught in Form 5. In the top universities, for science and engineering students, math is mostly proof based, which is not well covered even in A level, STPM or their equivalent.
chankitwck in one of his posts said he wanted to do electronic engineering or computer science, if he is serious about it, he better learn how to program soon. Those students who have no prior experience in programming usually have hard time catching up with students who did programming for a few years before they enter college. There are enough of those students in the top universities to skew the grade and difficulty of problem sets. You can find the brightests kids doing computer science in the top US universities, it is very different when compare to other places.

[wannie]

Originally Posted by ParadiseLost

There was one Malaysian student who got into MIT with only SPM results (quite some time ago). He was an International Math Olympiad medalist.

However, even with A levels/IB/STPM (or equivalent pre-U qualifications) it extremely difficult to get into these need-blind schools (Harvard, Yale, Princeton, MIT). Their admission rates are brutal: Harvard (5.9%), Yale (6.8%), Princeton (7.9%), MIT (9%). From what I've heard for the past 2 years, nobody got into Harvard. And for this year, nobody got into Yale or Princeton.
For the UK it is a little difficult, even here in Cambridge, it is very hard to get any form of financial assistance -- I have some friends in Cambridge under partial scholarship though (but it is very rare, and they almost never offer any scholarships to you). UK universities face a lot of budget problems, US universities are far richer.

My younger brother doing A levels applied to HYP, Stanford and MIT this year and unfortunately he was unable to secure a place at any of those universities. He will be heading to Oxford though.

Applying to Ivy League colleges in Form 5 is not a very good idea. Even my friends who did A levels and went on to the Ivy League felt that the coursework was immensely difficult even with their A level background.

I agree with your last paragraph. Seniors were mentioning that, and I'm not too sure if the hardest part in the Ivy League is to even get in.

For your first paragraph, I read somewhere that one kid who got a medal in olympiad failed to get in to MIT after trying 2 or 3 times. Poor kid. The admissions statistics you gave are for locals, it is far more competitive for international students (namely MIT) with an admissions rate of 3% approx. Oxford? This year? I might know who you're talking about, because I've met 2 malaysians who got into oxford during a scholarship interview.

PS- recom is full of bright people

[chankitwck]

Don't be getting over your head. Looks like your not even familiar with what systems we use to apply into the US and UK. They are both very different. An essay is hardly the only thing you'll be needing especially if we are talking about US.

frostbyte13, correct, i have no clue watsoever.
although did some Google-ing recently and manage to pull up something called the UCAS for the UK, something bout a system for applications i think.
Would u kindly clear my doubts regarding both "system"

I know one who went to an Ivy league after Form 5, but he did took SAT during that time

woah...now u r confusing me capablanca
How on earth someone enter with only SPM? as wannie pointed out, a pre-u or diploma is necessary before you enter. Ivy leagues or other unis don't offer foundation. so he skipped his foundation?

I was born ready to rock the world, Trance energy-style

[plawks]

If googling brought you to UCAS, then I suggest you to polish your googling skills. ;)

For starters:
http://recom.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=64
Read the sticky threads

http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/wiki/UCAS
http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/
Largest uk education forum

http://www.collegeconfidential.com/college_admissions/
http://www.collegeconfidential.com/
Popular US college bound community

Read, then come back with specific questions. Spoon feeding is not a culture over here. Your question can be answered in so many different ways. What exactly do you want to know about the so called 'systems'? The difference? Deadlines? Eligibility? Application fees? Essays? Standardized tests? Chances of getting in? Suitability of pre U course? As a top u aspirant, you should have done your homework before bombarding the forum with questions. No offense.

[capablanca]

Originally Posted by chankitwck

woah...now u r confusing me [color=Blue]capablanca
[color=Black]How on earth someone enter with only SPM? as [color=Blue]wannie [color=Black]pointed out, a pre-u or diploma is necessary before you enter. Ivy leagues or other unis don't offer foundation. so he skipped his foundation?

You should search other thread on Recom first before asking this question. Judging from your posting, it would be better for you to read up past post, and then ask if you have any further questions that was not answered.

Over the years, Recommers had been applying and accepted to top universities, and many came back to offer their wisdom for the new batch.

Have you ever check out a US college application form? That would be a better indicator of what is expected of you. You don't need a pre-u or diploma anything to get in. The application form did not state such requirements. Americans do not attend pre-u before they go to college. It is not a must. Look at everything from a case by case basis.

[wannie]

Though it is still better to take a pre U course because it will make you better prepared. Just a thought; majority of us did that anyway.

[frostbyte13]

Yes, please do check it out on your own as I myself am not familiar with the US applications system. Not to mention it's a case to case basis with the US. Some universities exclude themselves from the system, some are optional. The only clarification I can give you for UK is right, the UCAS. I don't really have time to elaborate much as I'm having my trials. Frankly, I'm also not comfortable with typing out so much unnecessary information you can get online or through an education counsellor, which is much better. If you insist Google is not helping you, go to companies like JMECC, MABECS, IDP, etc.

[chankitwck]

I have a few questions:
1. How do I apply to Universities in the US (Both ordinary and Ivy Leagues )? What do I have to do other than filling up application forms and writing essays eg.
2. Should I start applying by mid 2013 for the fall 2014 intake?
3. What is this "Common App" for application to US Universities? Will I be using this system?
4. Can I apply with only an IELTS instead of TOEFL? (meaning: SAT + IELTS)
5. Should I sit for my SAT test in early 2013 or this year for applications for fall 2014 intake?
6. How does one study professional and critical courses like pharmacy and medicine in the US?
Is it true that one must obtain an undergraduate degree in science (eg. BS in Biology, Chemistry,Physics,Math or Social Science)
before applying for pre-med / pharmacy school in the US?
(Previously I was confused that top Ivy League universities like Harvard, John Hopkin , Stanford, Yale, UCLA and Duke do not offer these courses)

Hope you could sort out my confusion.
Thanks