Discussion: Local grads not trash?

[lxy]

Originally Posted by joan2468

Teaching Creativity and Critical Thinking? Can those two really be taught? =p They're very subjective things, no two people's minds work exactly the same way. Honestly I think it is only effective if you encourage the students to be creative and bring out their potential to think critically and analytically - the drive must come from themselves, such skills cannot be taught in the conventional way - they come with experience and practice.

I'm at INTEC, and here, those doing a levels have to study Critical Thinking in their first semester. We even have this super thick textbook. Not much of a success, me thinks.

And we're really digressing here. And i'm contributing to it. :S

[youngyew]

Digression: teaching critical thinking reminds me of our "first lady"s suggestion to make voluntary work compulsory in local unis.

[surayahamdan]

One way to encourage critical thinking is to emphasise originality. Most universities abroad do not tolerate even the tiniest form of plagiarism. Wikipedia is a big no-no. And I'm almost quite sure that the lecturers possess some kind of magic because even a single sentence copied from a book can be tracked down by them, however rephrased and manipulated.

There is only one punishment for plagiarism, big or small - zero mark.

It's not the case in our local universities however. Just take a look at some of their papers in the library and you will spot heavy traces of copy-paste words or close imitations of other people's works.

[henry_yew]

Originally Posted by AngelColdplay

Oh.. My bad. I agree with u then. Btw, i wasn't aware local grads are not allowed to pursue other interests. Aren't there clubs or societies for u to join in uni? And the situation is different in overseas universities?

Bumping this thread (for fun's sake)!

When you mentioned "to pursue other interests", I take it that you meant to pursue other subjects that are outside your require core subjects.

I believe that in local universities, there are minor electives or social sciences and humanities subjects that must be taken up by the student while pursuing their core subjects. But, based on my experience alone (which may not be representative of students from, say, IPTA), I was required to take up only two minor electives of my choice from a list of available subjects. Then in my final year, I had the choice of choosing my major electives. The other subjects are already fixed and I did not have a choice of changing anything. Everything was pretty much structured and a rigid manner.

And yes, there are clubs and societies in universities, regardless whether it's IPTS or IPTA. Then again, just because there are clubs and societies for you to join does not mean that local graduates are not trash. Also, I would go further to say that even if there are clubs and societies, some students would opt not to participate in any of them, but they are not necessarily trash either.

Now, The Star Online has published an article (http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp...1&sec=nation):

Originally Posted by The Star Online

PETALING JAYA: Poor attitude -including asking for too much money - is the chief reason why employers shy away from hiring fresh graduates. Another common complaint is that many graduates are poor in English.

A survey by online recruitment agency Jobstreet.com showed that 55% of employers cited unrealistic expectations of salaries while 48% of them said poor English was the main reason why Malaysian fresh graduates from both public and private institutions remain unemployed.

?While previous surveys named poor English as the main cause for unemployment, bad attitude has now topped the list,? said its chief operating officer Suresh Thiru.

He said their attitudes were so bad that some did not even bother to inform the companies if they were running late or unable to attend scheduled interviews.

It was announced that the number of jobless graduates had increased from 65,500 to 71,600 although the overall unemployment rate had dropped from 3.4% last year to 3.1% during the first quarter of this year.

Another study by recruitment agency Kelly Services showed that fresh graduates asked for flexible working hours and expected their work to accommodate their personal life, not vice versa.

Its marketing director Jeannie Khoo said employers were also turned off by the lackadaisical attitude and lack of drive to improve among many of them.

?They have the misconception that they can earn high salaries at entry-level. They enter the banking industry expecting to earn RM3,000 while the market rate is only RM2,200,? she said.

PricewaterhouseCoopers Malaysia head of recruitment Salika Suksuwan said some candidates had many offers in hand but acted unprofessionally in rejecting job offers - by not turning up for interviews or the first day at work.

?We sometimes have to call them and remind them about a scheduled interview when they didn't turn up,? she said.

Talent Corp CEO Johan Mahmood Merican urged fresh graduates not to make demands on their salary.

?It is more important to join a company that can develop your skills and prepare you for future opportunities,? he said.

In a related development, Human Resource Deputy Minister Datuk Maznah Mazlan said half of the applicants who registered with the JobsMalaysia portal (www.jobsmalaysia.gov.my) had found employment.

Speaking when launching the Graduan Aspire 2011 employment fair yesterday, she said about 300,000 job applicants were currently registered with the website.

Personally, I detest the manner in which this article was written; it sounds as if this article is meant to "squeeze" fresh grads even further.

But anyway, from the article alone, I believe a lot of points that we said are also covered in the article, i.e. poor command of English, etc.

However, poor attitude is also cited as a problem plaguing fresh grads today. Now, of course it is not necessarily referring to local graduates, i.e. foreign graduates may also display attitude problems, but is this a growing problem? Are more fresh graduates displaying "poor attitude"?

If there is anything that Malaysians are quite well known for, it's that we are not a punctual lot. And if what the article says about our fresh graduates is true, then whether they are trash or not, it's for you to think and decide for yourselves.

Just bear in mind one thing: that article isn't painting us fresh graduates a good image. It talks about the bad side of fresh graduates, but where are the good sides? It all boils down to you on whether or not you want to be an individual of worth, or someone thought of as trash. It's your call. What do you want to be? We can either prove the article right, or prove them wrong, "in your face" style.

[Merlin]

Originally Posted by lxy

I'm at INTEC, and here, those doing a levels have to study Critical Thinking in their first semester. We even have this super thick textbook. Not much of a success, me thinks.

And we're really digressing here. And i'm contributing to it. :S

Believed that it does not matter if you are local / foreign grads.
In any case, the development of a good grads very much depends on 2 things; individual drive as well as the guidance in the university that they have studied. In my mind the development of a good graduate will be always the drive of the invidual needs with the good guidance provided. Noted that some local U are not that good, but it would be wrong to say that all local U are not good. Some not to bad as well comparing to a lot of other foreign U. The good development (such as Critical Thinking skills) is mostly a Science and an Art. Science in the guidance given (teaching methodology, etc) and the Art (students needs, and drive). Both comes hand in hand for a successful development of a good graduate.

[joan2468]

Personally I think to label all (or most) local graduates as trash is over-generalising and somewhat upsetting - you have to understand that not everyone has the money to study overseas, and scholarships are limited and very competitive. Are these unlucky individuals then to be automatically labelled as "trash" just because they missed out on the opportunities, despite having made the effort to chase after them, and are in the end forced to make do with what they can get in Malaysia? I don't think that's being fair at all.

Though there is a certain point where it is very debatable, the statement "it is not the university that makes a successful graduate, it is the students themselves" seems to hold up well - you could fork out hundreds of thousands to go and study overseas, but if you don't grab the chance and make the effort to learn as much as you can and drink in the experience, what good is that going to do you? I'm going to admit that universities in Malaysia are to an extent quite lacking compared to some better foreign institutions, but they do have the odd rare diamond-in-the-rough who stays above the line of laziness, is passionate about what they study and comes out just as employable as a graduate from an overseas university, the only unfortunate side-effect being that the name of UM is almost nothing compared to, say, Cambridge. Not all local grads have bad English - when it comes to language, it is entirely up to the individual to learn and practice it, and if they refuse to, too bad for them then.

For me it is particularly upsetting because I come from a middle-class family and my parents are against the idea of me studying overseas unless I happen to be lucky enough to net a scholarship. I realise it is yet early for this because I have yet to take my SPM, but I may well end up having to do my undergraduate studies here in Malaysia. But I speak and write English ten times better than my own mother tongue, and I can't see myself turning down a job that seems like a great opportunity to learn just because the pay doesn't quite live up to my expectations (not to the extent of allowing myself to be hired as cheap labour though...)

So I conclude that the assumption "All local grads are trash" is a trashy assumption in and of itself. Now, "Some local grads are trash" would be more accurate, the same way "Some foreign grads are trash" is also accurate.

[xJing]

Originally Posted by joan2468

So I conclude that the assumption "All local grads are trash" is a trashy assumption in and of itself. Now, "Some local grads are trash" would be more accurate, the same way "Some foreign grads are trash" is also accurate.

That definitely is true. One has to admit that there are local universities that have succeeded in producing much sought after graduates, even fresh graduates, for that matter. Family friends who graduated locally were immediately hired by international firms with excellent pay. On the contrary, there are overseas graduates who come home and end up shaking their legs because employers don't see that they have potential.

I'd say that one's mindset and character has a lot to do in determining whether one is or isn't trash.

[yeng]

Local uni graduates are trash??
Looking at so many complains about the curriculum, do you think the unis don't know about it or didn't do something about it?
from what i heard, they are try to change their curriculum! but how and what impediments that they had faced am not sure about the detalis. a lot of local elites lack of a platform to express their talent of it.
lets wait for them to improve. although it takes time.

[Silverlight]

The best way to learn is to go ahead and knock out something real. Success or failure? along the way you learn a bunch.... but we are always stuck with our curriculum and never dare to try..