?Coming Out?: Gay Teenagers, in Their Own Words

[Jcm_39]

Originally Posted by vseehua

Does it matter? Don't forget that some of us are atheists and agonists...

yeah, it does. makes me understand why people reply in certain manners.we are all very much influenced by our faith and beliefs.

[dcwk04]

Originally Posted by zanyzephyr

well, christian, buddhist, we all have 2 eyes, 1 nose, a pair of ears, a mouth and same anatomy structure. What you believe is who you are, and if you are happy sticking to what YOU believe, does anything else matters?

Because if we all believe what we want to and then act out on those beliefs, then the world would go chaotic? Because social laws dictate that we conform, at least to laws and regulations, to maintain peace and harmony?

...

Heres a few questions to all:

Malaysia is a conservative and religious nation. Her first Rukun Negara is Kepercayaan Kepada Tuhan, and we have not yet seen a politician, community leader, or lawmaker who has readily admited to being atheist or [s]antagonist[/s] agnostic. Religion preaches against homosexuality. What are the chances of homosexuality or transsexualism gaining legal ground here, in a nation that so readily mixes religious legalism (Syaria' laws) with governance?


...


Trivia: When you Google the words "Christianity and..." , "Islam and..." or "Buddhism and...", the word homosexuality comes up in the top 5 hits (in the dropdown box).

...

How do I strikeout a word? I thought the coding [s]word[/s] would work but...

[zanyzephyr]

Originally Posted by dcwk04

Malaysia is a conservative and religious nation. Her first Rukun Negara is Kepercayaan Kepada Tuhan, and we have not yet seen a politician, community leader, or lawmaker who has readily admited to being atheist or [s]antagonist[/s] agnostic. Religion preaches against homosexuality. What are the chances of homosexuality or transsexualism gaining legal ground here, in a nation that so readily mixes religious legalism (Syaria' laws) with governance?

First thing's first. Buddhism was never a religion to begin with, take note.

Be it legal or not, the community is already there. There are things that we can't change such as PM must be a Muslim, Islam is already the national religion and it disregards the practice of unnatural sex. But, they never said being in love with a person of the same sex is wrong. Playing around with words yes, but if the couple didn't openly speak of their sexual lives, are they at fault? There are things to be kept between people, and sex is one of them. Unless the law enforcers deliberately hunt down the couple to proof that they have sex natural or unnatural(which I don't think they are that desperate) then ain't they safe from the law? It's how you solve the problems, not just look at it and say its just impossible. Life ain't as sweet as fairy tales, its up to individuals to handle the situations wisely.

Originally Posted by dcwk04

Because if we all believe what we want to and then act out on those beliefs, then the world would go chaotic? Because social laws dictate that we conform, at least to laws and regulations, to maintain peace and harmony?

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. Acting out of your beliefs does not include causing havoc. If the effect of your act is only for you and yourself to bare with, I do not see how other parties are to be involved into your responsibility.

Buddha he himself did mention before, "do not just follow instructions blindly. Think thrice and wise before you act." If you were to be wise enough, you will not cause havoc. How does loving another person of the same sex cause havoc? By showing affection? Even PDAs are not really acceptable around even of heterosexuals, so you've got to be wise.

PS: Theravadian Buddhism perception towards homosexualities(including practice of sex)

In the case of the lay man and woman where there is mutual consent, where adultery is not involved and where the sexual act is an expression of love, respect, loyalty and warmth, it would not be breaking the third Precept. And it is the same when the two people are of the same gender. Likewise promiscuity, license and the disregard for the feelings of others would make a sexual act unskillful whether it be heterosexual or homosexual. All the principles we would use to evaluate a heterosexual relationship we would also use to evaluate a homosexual one. In Buddhism we could say that it is not the object of one's sexual desire that determines whether a sexual act is unskillful or not, but rather the quality of the emotions and intentions involved. [1]

Since I'm living the way of Buddhism, if both parties' affections are mutual, its perfectly fine. I'm still practicing good deeds, care for others and do not cause harm. Am I wrong?

PPS: haha thanks dcwk04, your trivia was true!


"However, the Buddha sometimes advised against certain behavior not because it is wrong from the point of view of ethics but because it would put one at odds with social norms or because its is subject to legal sanctions. In these cases, the Buddha says that refraining from such behavior will free one from the anxiety and embarrassment caused by social disapproval or the fear of punitive action. Homosexuality would certainly come under this type of behavior. In this case, the homosexual has to decide whether she or he is going to acquiesce to what society expects or to try to change public attitudes. In Western societies where attitudes towards sex in general have been strongly influenced by the tribal taboos of the Old Testament and, in the New Testament, by the ideas of highly neurotic people like St. Paul, there is a strong case for changing public attitudes." 3

[Dominic]

Originally Posted by Jcm_39

Before I say anything, I would like to ask one question here.
I assume you guys here are very well educated, smart people. Just one thing, are you people Buddhists or Christians? Just wondering though.

I am a free-thinking Buddhist...which means that unlike normal Buddhists, I believe in the existence of God. However, I am also an agnostic, since I believe it is impossible to prove the existence of God.

Originally Posted by dcwk04

Because if we all believe what we want to and then act out on those beliefs, then the world would go chaotic? Because social laws dictate that we conform, at least to laws and regulations, to maintain peace and harmony?

Social laws changes with time. Remember back when women weren't allowed to work, African Americans were segregated, and Jews were slaughtered? Well, it got better for them. With time, it'll get better for the LGBT community as well.

I wonder how two people in love can somehow cause the world to go chaotic and disrupt peace and harmony. The world must be pretty fragile then.

[yanno_yamster]

Originally Posted by zanyzephyr

First thing's first. Buddhism was never a religion to begin with, take note.

I just want to point this out; Buddhism IS a religion, but not according to Western definition.

[Jcm_39]

I am a free-thinking Buddhist...which means that unlike normal Buddhists, I believe in the existence of God. However, I am also an agnostic, since I believe it is impossible to prove the existence of God.

Good to know that. I guess now I can understand you better. I know we don't see eye to eye on this, but since you shared your links with me before, now I'm going to share mine. I know you might find it hard to digest, but well I can understand that since you have lived as a free-thinking Buddhist and agnostic for almost your entire life.

http://godandscience.org/evolution/g...sexuality.html

http://www.gotquestions.org/search.p...x=0&search.y=0

The second link is better if you would like to seek questions and answers.Cheers.

[zanyzephyr]

Originally Posted by yanno_yamster

I just want to point this out; Buddhism IS a religion, but not according to Western definition.

Define religion. Buddhism has always been a way of life. It's between you and yourself, and the way you choose to live on.

By the way, I'm a Theravadian Buddhist. I still do not think Buddhism is a religion.

[vseehua]

Originally Posted by zanyzephyr

Define religion. Buddhism has always been a way of life. It's between you and yourself, and the way you choose to live on.

By the way, I'm a Theravadian Buddhist. I still do not think Buddhism is a religion.

re?li?gion   
[ri-lij-uhn] Show IPA
?noun
1.
a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2.
a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3.
the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/religion

From the theistic point of view, a religion involves beliefs in a supreme, all powerful being who can do anything at his whim. From this point of view, Buddhism is not really a religion.

However, from the list of definitions that I have put here, Buddhism is a religion...

In any case, we have digressed from the original topic. If there is any more interest in debating on this topic, you may have a look at the thread Atheist and Theists.

[hhhcce]

Thought it might be relevant.

http://www.seksualitimerdeka.org/201...ds-lgbtiq.html

[yingxuy]

I want my friend to speak. More than half of his life, he became a "she." However, one day, he changed 360 degrees. It's like he finally realized, it just does not seem right. God's blessing, he slowly changed.