Event: Bersih 3.0 Rally

[Nicholas92]

Originally Posted by shawn95

I'm aware Nicholas92, haha. I mean c'mon all events no matter how important always has happiness, festive feeling about it like installation of the new Agong, the US President inauguration day, etc.

I support the idea of Bersih. If the current govt has been winning fairly then no problem in proving it to the people. The idea of a free election is a nice. But im not that enthusiastic/over-zealous to subject myself to the risk of being trampled, teargassed, arrested, etc. And i'm not stupid enough to go "planking" (funny to see btw) in front of a giant polis truck.

But anyway the only reason i posted was just to see if shuwentao would back-up the photographs with words instead of rebutting using internet links and more photos. Wonder how that turned out?

Well, I don't judge anyone who decides that to attend a rally isn't their thing. It's a fair decision to make, when you can admit that that's just the limit to which you feel like you must be involved in any movement. (What I don't like is people who can only complain but refuse to do anything, even something relatively simple like attending a rally, to show for it).

But to defend people who go "planking" in front of police trucks...it's somewhat brave, but I don't think it's stupid. The truck isn't about to run you over. But it's still likely that you'll be subjected to a lot of tear gas and water haha.

Still, you don't have to get trampled on or arrested, I might add. I was pretty lucky not to get into trouble, but it's also 'cause I stayed out of it - didn't go near the police, tried as far as I could not to stay in the thick of the crowd, etc.

As for getting a non-link, non-photo, non-video reply...we shall see

[acgerlok7]

Wow...this thread is sunddenly influx with so many pictures, where's the facts,shuwenteo...don't just use pictures and photos.

[youngyew]

I suspect the planking is an attempt to produce a representative imagery of Bersih, like the Tank Man in Tiananmen Incident.

[Seiryu]

Originally Posted by shawn95

I support the idea of Bersih. If the current govt has been winning fairly then no problem in proving it to the people. The idea of a free election is a nice. But im not that enthusiastic/over-zealous to subject myself to the risk of being trampled, teargassed, arrested, etc. And i'm not stupid enough to go "planking" (funny to see btw) in front of a giant polis truck.

Would you think of this lady as "enthusiastic/over-zealous to subject herself to the risk of being trampled, teargas, (and shot)" and "stupid enough" to go standing in front of a giant troop of army?

[nicholas93]

Originally Posted by shuwenteo

For many years, we were clueless as we preferred to sit by and let the current government slowly take our rights in the name of peace and law enforcement. There is no law when the government is allowed to break the law.

I understand that freedom does not come easily. It will take many years and several unsuccessful encounters. But we will not give up!

I kinda concur with this bit.

Now that we have a choice, why limit ourselves to a party or coalition defined by race? We cannot and will not give up our rights in exchange for the illusion of safety. From the pictures, Malaysians went from strength to strength and proved, how noble a thing freedom is, not in one respect only, but in all; for while we were oppressed and discriminated under a repressive and racist government.

250,000 on the streets had an impact which can't be ignored. We have made a difference. Have you?

But you ruined that nice sentiment with the veiled dig at BN's being defined by race. There is no doubt that BN is racist, but the opposition coalition is still a relatively unknown quantity, so you cannot claim its component parties are not (to a certain extent) defined by race. These pictures don't "prove" how noble freedom is. They do prove that some younger Malaysians are participating in a rally, but that's about it. Certainly not how 'noble' freedom is.

250,000 people have come together to voice support for clean and fair elections. But that has not made an iota of difference, not yet. The real grind starts now, with the job of cleaning up Malaysian elections, and ends when Malaysian elections are entirely free of fraud.

Originally Posted by Nicholas92

As for getting a non-link, non-photo, non-video reply...we shall see

Ask and you shall receive. LOL

[Nicholas92]

Originally Posted by shuwenteo

Can we actually overthrow the government? The answer is simply 'no'. We can't overthrow the government because there's no longer a government to overthrow in a democracy. We are not Egypt or Tunisia. Now that we have a choice, why limit ourselves to a party or coalition defined by race? We cannot and will not give up our rights in exchange for the illusion of safety. From the pictures, Malaysians went from strength to strength and proved, how noble a thing freedom is, not in one respect only, but in all; for while we were oppressed and discriminated under a repressive and racist government. For many years, we were clueless as we preferred to sit by and let the current government slowly take our rights in the name of peace and law enforcement. There is no law when the government is allowed to break the law.

I understand that freedom does not come easily. It will take many years and several unsuccessful encounters. But we will not give up!

250,000 on the streets had an impact which can't be ignored. We have made a difference. Have you?

Errr while I still think most of what you write are platitudes, I think I can at least agree with your sentiments...

But I also see that you're championing this as rising against an oppressive government, and pushing back against them. Is that what Bersih is about? Wasn't Bersih only supposed to be about electoral reform, not an anti-BN campaign?

Can we actually overthrow the government? The answer is simply 'no'. We can't overthrow the government because there's no longer a government to overthrow in a democracy. We are not Egypt or Tunisia.

What is this supposed to mean? That there is no such thing as a government within a democratic system? It sounds like you're saying "We can't overthrow what's not there", but I don't see why it "isn't there".

Now that we have a choice, why limit ourselves to a party or coalition defined by race? We cannot and will not give up our rights in exchange for the illusion of safety.

Now this one makes the most sense. I totally agree. Just not as a reason for supporting Bersih or going for rallies. When we have better options, then go for the better options. And where we would normally forfeit some of our rights for the sake of security, what the government is promising is only the false pretense of security. Good.

From the pictures, Malaysians went from strength to strength and proved, how noble a thing freedom is, not in one respect only, but in all; for while we were oppressed and discriminated under a repressive and racist government.

So...Malaysians proved how noble freedom is in *all* respects, whatever those vague respects might be. And the second part of the sentence is hanging, but I assume you're saying we proved this nobility while being oppressed, which I'm guessing is pretty great.

For many years, we were clueless as we preferred to sit by and let the current government slowly take our rights in the name of peace and law enforcement. There is no law when the government is allowed to break the law.

No idea how to respond to this one.

[Zulhelmi]

Alrite, we have racist BN. On the other hand we have opposition which currently supported by (majority) this single group of the same colour. Is there any differences in defining racist?

[quest_5692]

Originally Posted by Zulhelmi

Alrite, we have racist BN. On the other hand we have opposition which currently supported by (majority) this single group of the same colour. Is there any differences in defining racist?

who? chinese? malay? to be honest I can't tell...but my honest guess will be malay, since the majority of our population consist of them.

anyway, bersih should only remain as a clean electoral reform rally, sad to see so many people take it for granted as an anti-BN campaign. I honestly can't see how BN can lose even in a clean election considering their stronghold in remote area. If memory serve me right, in east Malaysia, only kuching and a few major cities was won by the opposition, in the villages, BN is the defaulto. I would blame this to asymmetric information, oppositions can collect easy win in major cities in Malaysia because the people are exposed to the shorts of the government in alternative media but not in those remote areas. so, they are going to vote for BN and they are the majority of malaysian citizen.

so, my advice to the opposition will be: 1st, get the news into the rural areas. let them know what really is going on out there. holding big ass rally wont help because they are going to read the 'doctored' article from newspaper and blame the oppositions as trouble makers. even so, i still think it is an uphill battle considering the oversea police + army vote, incentives to vote for BN (you get alot of $$ if you go back to kelantan and vote for bn) like, alot.

[Nicholas92]

Uhm weren't you NOT supposed to put up offensive pictures like this again? If I remember the last time you put up pics of people gesturing like that it was taken down...

[nicholas93]

Yellow card!